It would make suppression efforts difficult, but a fire break could have been constructed around the original slow-moving fire in the early days. The main road out of Gatlinburg is the Spur, which is the 5 mile stretch of Park Service Road that lies between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg. So who would you blame the people that died, wildlife and homeowners. November 27th, 35 acres. Money. Our Gatlinburg Inn was built on family and community. So because of his and other incompetence property owners are paying the price. perish, but for the 14 who did, If the defendants didnt ignite the 14th fire, who did and is this 14th fire under investigation? Difficult access to safely fight fire, lack of pre-blow up fire management, and extreme drought capped off by an exceptional weather event led to the July 1st, 1998 Farmton firestorm that burned through the rural community where I lived in east central Florida. This would explain why they are all covering for each other. Breathing between car and house was hard. Not every fire manager gets the benefit of a meteorologist in your hip pocket, but there are many good weather websites available. On the map below, the fire is the small dot in the center surrounded by the yellow line. Fire crews were dispatched to a structure fire around 6:30. I have to assume that the city of Gatlinburg felt that since my road was county property that I was on my own. They felt this was an attempt to start a forest fire and it was reported to officials. Its hard to see. Anyone who has toured the hillsides where most of the homes that were destroyed would know immediately how difficult evacuations would be. Other than the way the police were able to evacuate 4,000 people from Gatlinburg with little notice on Monday evening, everyone else involved did a very poor job. Thank you for your kind words and concern about our loss. The teens, 15 and 17, were charged with starting the Chimney Tops fire which eventually spread to the Smoky Mountains, into Sevier County and Gatlinburg, killing 14 people, injuring more than. When two juveniles were arrested on December 7 and charged with aggravated arson, many people assumed they had the answer. But those heroes should have never been in that situation in the first place. Arson charges dropped against teens accused in deadly Gatlinburg - WJLA Being asleep at the wheel is no excuse. Officials say the road will be closed for an extended period. Unfortunately its the home owners that are taking the hit and I think it should be them. A little later the local TV news reported the fire had crossed the road and was headed up the mountain behind the Park Vista. How many sorties could those planes do in an single day even if they had been deployed on Even Friday?? No evacuation orders issued- If I had gone to work that day my two sons would be dead. Waited a month to report this event and turn over the pictures they took to forestry officials! The Spur between Pigeon Forge to Gatlinburg is open from Pigeon Forge to the Gatlinburg Welcome Center. Even the Gatlinburg Fire Chief had been told on Sunday at 0900 that models had the fire hitting downtown Gatlinburg by Tuesday 1100. Jordans comments on the video indicates that their management was taking care to show how they were not responsible. Jon Binhammer had an excellent point about the hemlocks. I can only hope that the actions are being undertaken somewhere and by the decision-makers and leaders to think and act differently. The electricity goes out almost everytime there is a high wind. He told me he was scared to drive the truck-its a lot more cumbersome in the local terrain than his little Outback. That said, it is always easier for those outside of the forest to see the big picture then those who are standing inside the trees down on the forest floor. They learned. I think thats pretty cut and dry and yes its their fault that they didnt at least try and do something. U.S. Park Service (again) and Thanksgiving. Why were there so many wildfires being lit by arsonists all of a sudden this year? This would help the owners defray some costs so they can rebuild. There will be no access to Wiley Oakley or Westgate from the Spur. Photos: Fire in Gatlinburg, Tennessee | Photo Galleries | herald That didnt work out. One question I have not seen asked is why any adult would have witnessed children playing with matches and lighting fires especially under the obvious conditions in this situation and 1. not taken immediate action 2. This article shows NPS was concerned by and notified of impending high winds. Especially our local emergency workers and the Park Service. I have wanted to learn because I dont know enough to say much, but when I read your two posts about the loss of your cabin, and your escape, I felt I had to say, Im so sorry, to you, and probably speak for many many others who did not find this blog and find an avenue to learn, listen and to speak. ATF, other agencies search for cause of blaze that claimed life of There is room for all to be as important as the other, and hold all of these ideals up at the same time, to honor and to debate. Whomever is in charge locally for the NPS should also be summarily fired. Shelter locations could have been announced, especially encouraging people to take action during the daylight hours that day so that escaping in total darkness during an inferno of fire or not having the means to do so would not be forced on people, and they could make arrangements for their own safety. I am rebuilding the home that was burned to the ground possibly due to negligence by local fire officials like many of Lincolns Union generals, did not have the will to fight . For folks afflicted by this tragedy, emotions running high should be expected; and it is understandable for Kelly Morgan to be upset. I learned that it is extremely difficult to manage, rather than suppress, a wildland fire for an extended period of time. Downtown Gatlinburg Fire at Puckers Sports Grill & More (OCT 9, 2022) WTF were they letting the planes in Chattanooga sit idle? You bet you were. Updated: Dec. 25, 2022 at 6:15 PM PST. Those probably did not finish burning for several days. Its all in moderately dense forest that overhangs above the road. Experience in itself is never enough. The 2 juvenile defendants have been charged with the fire of Nov 23rd, 2016; but there has been NO apparent media release by officials and investigators as to whether these defendants started the fire of Nov 14th, 2016? The actual clifts are small and easily avoided. I always come back to that groupthink mentality, the ladder of inference, the been there done that mode, the failure/fear to act, and thats how weve always done it thinking; all part of how our unconscious brain works without our conscious intervention and critical thinking skills. there is nothing that can address the failure of leadership at every level that contributed to that loss of life. Hemlocks were mentioned in a number of daily updates on Inciweb because they are basically standing roman candles thanks to the spiral of limbs. The Seiver County Medical Examiner's office identified the man as 54-year-old Joe Martin Bates, according to the City of Gatlinburg. She may have chosen poor timing, and perhaps not the best method of tackling the issues, but nonetheless we need to start asking the tough questions without being so offended and then take a good hard look at the issues, and how they can be resolved. Jeannines comments were spot on. The learning system of resolution. From 7 p.m. until midnight sustained winds were at 13 to 17 mph with gusts from 34 to 49. We had hiked to the Chimneys for the view many times it was easy to see the wind being funneled down from there to Gatlinburg just like an invisible whitewater river. FEMA did say they would give us a low interest rate loan, we dont want a loan we worked hard and paid it off and dont want to go in debt to rebuild! Copyright 2022 WVLT. Please keep in mind our commenting ground rules before you post a comment. We shouldnt have expected anything else, I dont know what we were thinking. But outright blame? I look forward to seeing the report when it comes out. A lot of chainsawing has been going on. Then the wind comes!!! I agree, this has many players to blame and starts with Superintendent Cassius Cash and trickles down to the City and County. It is unfortunate that in our society people who speak out with a loud voice, or otherwise make waves for the privileged, get not only scorned but categorically destroyed by well planned out and financed design, often full of cover-up and lies and then propaganda is feed to the rest of us, of which we often take for gospel, when in fact is often not based on evidence or fact. It is no wonder that the people do not trust Government. http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/cabin-on-creek-and-chimneys-top-2-fire.html, http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/great-chimney-tops-2-fire-science.html. This story Im telling is all factual you see I have a problem with anyone exaggerating events as well as lying so I tell the truth regardless of how unpopular it may be. We were there on Thanksgiving week-end. I told him there wasnt when I got there at 5 oclock but I could not even see driveways on the way up. There were cliffs in the area but firefighting Hotshot Crews can figure out how to work on steep slopes, sometimes backing off a bit, constructing a fire line and intentionally burning the fuel in between, preventing further expansion of the fire. I am in my late 60s and have never seen such a drought, or such low stream levels. We must open our eyes and ears and check behind each corner and crevice to see the reality and not just the story being told by a few. One other consideration relevant to some of the previous comments about the aggressiveness or lack thereof in dealing with the fire in the first few days is the context of other ongoing wildfires. The further fire growth part was more accurate than they realized at the time. We had somewhat of a plan but both agreed that if we had a warning or concern we would leave because of our location and our neighborhood has no fire hydrants. Their soft wood holds a lot of moisture normally, but the conditions the past few months would have dried the limbs and outer layers up the trunk. Officials said three people were found dead from fires in the Chalet Village area, and one person was discovered dead near a motel on Highway 321. That said, it is always easier for those outside of the forest to see the big picture then those who are standing inside the trees down on the forest floor. Standing dead hemlock burned up their trunks, to as high as 50 feet on one specimen I saw. They didnt for one reason in my humble opinion: $$$ As it turned out the sprinklers were far above affordable means and way outside the parameters quoted by the NFPA for the cost of a standard sprinkler system so we did not get them. 10/10/22, 1:56 p.m. The perfect firestorm. Resident of Western Maryland. I am here at the opportunity on a couple of occasions to speak to the Fire Chief of Ontario Michigan. Lied too by Gatlinburg or Sevier County officials? Thank you, Bill. At the big forest fires in NC and GA, where the federal incident management teams were located, the Incident teams ordered pre-evacuation prior to the arrival of a cold front when strong, gusty winds were forecast. Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge wildfire evacuation information - WJBF LeConte is going to be fine. Only 0.05 inch fell at the Indian Grave Remote Automatic Weather Station 18 miles west of the fire. Visibility was bad and it was hard to breathe as we unpacked our truck. The DA in Sevier County has put a gag rule in effect since the get go to protect the teeneagers involved. The cause of the fire remains under investigation. Also important is accountability, so is teaching, learning and experience, so is action, so is on and on. People need their jobs, and we all act based on the limited information, training and experience that we have and hopefully rely on others who have diverse backgrounds to supplement where we may lack. They should not be excused because they did not escape the consequences this time of their lax policies and their actual failure to follow the procedures they should have followed. They are having a press conference this afternoon so perhaps there will be more transparency. The fire was reported to be near the Twin Creeks Picnic Center at 1130. There are A lot of cheap seats in the arena filled with people who never venture onto the floor. I only lost my house, but someone has to speak the truth about what did/didnt happen that day/night. The Park Superintendent did not want to risk the lives of NPS fire crews with the Chimney Tops Fire 2; and that is to be respected. Bob had stayed in West TN after Thanksgiving, to work there for a few days before returning home so he wasnt with us. Thanks! It was Congress that adjourned for the holidays without passing a bill to fund forest fire fighting efforts. Its incredulous that evacuation didnt go out then. But if park management had been spending budget on fire management capabilities equal to those sites there would likely be criticism of that. He was told there was none/no one. Ive not had a chance to hike post-fire areas in the mountains yet to see fires effect on dead hemlocks, but what Henry said about dead stumps burning into the ground looking like a volcano rings true with what Ive witnessed in mountain forest areas that burned decades ago. All of the big trees were gone (although younger trees had been treated and saved). One thing Id add: the county is allowing residents that lost their home to use their existing block or poured foundation as long as they have one of their local cemetacious experts test it and approve it. Being that were neighbors with these people, its people that we love. The big, dead hemlocks are light grey with a circular limb pattern as viewed from the air. One thing I have learned is that the news media, especially in todays world is just as skilled and often benefits from pushing their own agendas as well. Their are undoubtedly many many causative factors for any disaster, even the actions, inactions and unintentional actions can be like a snowball rolling down a mountain of snow! 1 dead in Gatlinburg fire that affected travel to Smokies Steve Brueck of DaculaWeather.com suppied us with Local Storm Report Informationfrom the National Weather Service that includes wind gust speeds in the general area. If youve ever been in an incident management role you understand often having made a good decision given the best information available at the time you dont get the outcome you want. There will be legal repercussions because of incompetence. I am broken-hearted over it .. It was the hottest summer we ever felt. I was nervous about it. They just hurl mean criticisms and put downs from a safe distance Brene Brown. They are as Brene Brown puts it, In The Arena; not merely sitting in a seat watching it or viewing from a comfort zone at home on the big screen but in the Arena risking everything for others. Emergency crews were on the scene for 31 hours extinguishing the fire before the emergency demolition was requested. I was struck by the daunting task of creating a viable fire-prevention plan in that area of constant tourist turnover, and the way it is laid-out. The adelgid apparently needs the rougher bark of older trees to climb up the trunk to the greenery on which they feed. Wildland firefighters typically request Spot Weather Forecasts from the NWS for wildland fires or other events that can be greatly influenced by weather. Who allowed this to happen? Not clouding the issues with the intent to take down a person. The fire, which was reported at 6:39 a.m. Sunday in the 700 block of Parkway,. Many fire managers in that situation would immediately attack emerging fires very aggressively with overwhelming force, that is, many firefighters on the ground assisted by numerous aircraft dropping water or fire retardant. During fire suppression efforts, crews found one person dead inside the structure. I cannot count how many times my wife or I would find a fire smoldering typically from someone who flipped a lit cigarette and the brush when they were finished. However, to expect her to honor the NPS is inappropriate considering reality and her circumstances. Incident Mgt. Just like the Mayor of Amity in Jaws, they didnt want the tourists to see this much reality. ), lack of knowledge of alternative communication systems (the Motorola area wide emergency radio system installed last year). Was it ever fully suppressed? They probably feel they are fortunate and safe because they will not speak out on the topic until the criminal charges are completed against the two youth that perpetrated this fire but they would be foolish to do so as time just continues to churn the anger. Unfortunately, the good ole boy network, via the Sevier County DA, is trying to keep things in secret by cutting off all information after the the two teens were arrested, claiming such information could jeopordize the case against the teens. In my eyes, TEMA should have taken control of the situation and ordered evacuations before sunset. My wife and I hiked to Alum Cave Bluffs Saturday, Nov. 26, while the fire was small up on the Chimneys. I think the point is that IMT managed wildfires in the southeast had residents in pre-evac mode when high winds were forecast before each cold front passed. Those with information are urged to contact the Tennessee Arson Hotline at 1-800-762-3017 or the GFD at 865-436-5112. Down hemlocks are mostly just gone. I certainly agree there are definitely consequences for our actions, for some more than others. That is when it began moving rapidly toward Gatlinburg. As a contractor I worked with a Dunes engine in Michigan MI years ago. (Credit: Tom Williams), Two people in custody after police chase, manhunt near Warrior & Hayden, Protest held in memory of Glenn Foster Junior, Fire department K-9 dies during search and rescue mission. If they do work as a pair, do they set multiple fires in the same area? That would mean your timeline of the last water drop would possibly vary 15-45 minutes depending on the helibase location and flight time to the dipsite. This time it is not firefighters but civilian deaths. On Monday November 28 it recorded wind gusts in that part of the state at46 to 60 mph, and a 76 mph gust on Wednesday. We had no significant rain in 2 months!!! However, when adequate risk analysis, proactive contingency planning and decision making, real time fire behavior simulations predicting possible disastrous outcomes, humans may have a much better chance of containing, or controlling, or herding, or managing or all-out suppressing an unwanted or unplanned ignition. Many locals are saying the lack of evac was income driven. As long as there are watchdogs for the truth such yourself, it will be hard to bury. On Sunday when GSMNP called in helicopter water drops, there were 3 fire tanker planes sitting on the runway 20 minutes away in Chattanooga (covered in Wildfire Today). When we reached our car at road level, we saw flames coming over the ridge directly south of our house. I believe that many, many people are alive now because they did use common sense but some of the people who died, were victims of circumstances that they should never have faced if their public officials had been acting solely on their responsibility, first and foremost, and perhaps only, to protect and serve. Conspiracy, no. That night after we arrived home we started getting text from friends showing fires at the Park Vista Hotel, then one from our neighbors across the street, he lives in Knoxville called and said he had been there at 5:30 P.M. this was on the 28th and when he left it was smokey but everything was still fine. If this is the same Bob Stanton commenting here, then the bias is way too obvious. Numerous photos show a dramatic increase in smoke in the downtown area between 5 and 5:30 pm. Triage of resource needs versus values at risk, firefighter safety, resource values and political realities all come into play. It was pretty frightening. We are still dealing but two of us or degree, the emotional loss of losing our beloved cabin but now we are in the rebuild mode. 'Human caused' Tennessee wildfires kill seven near Dollywood park These people both the successful along with the ones who erred and experienced failure, courageously risked being vulnerable in order to help others. (PETER PARKS/AFP via Getty Images) Chan estimated the insurance claim could . He actually wrote me back on Christmas Eve, of all things, to tell me that they will keep after it. Oct. 11, 2022, at 10:27 a.m. 1 Dead in Gatlinburg Fire That Affected Travel to Smokies. Tennessee wildfire near Gatlinburg prompts evacuations of 11,000 homes Most of the people that own property down there like me live elsewhere in the real world were things cannot be as easily shoved under the rug like they are down there. I have a close friend on IMT in southern CO so have some familiarity with the process. People were ready to leave their home in 15 min. There are three broad categories of conditions that affect the way a wildfire burns: weather, fuels (vegetation), and topography. Hong Kong skyscraper fire could mean $64M payout, cause under investigation Lets hope that this round regarding the fire and loss of life, it will be more difficult for officials to weasel out of this one. Hit it with all you have the Moment it breaks out.. National Park Service says never push a slower friend down when escaping a bear, Knoxville utilities crews work to restore power after intense storms, Missing elderly Knoxville woman last seen at hospital, police say, Vols drop to 5-seed in SEC Tournament after falling at Auburn, 79-70. the downtown fire on Oct. 9 that killed one person and injured another. The cause of the fire remains under investigation by the GFD, Gatlinburg Police Department and the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. But until the review of the fire is complete and the report is published, I would be careful with a statement like this: The Chimney Tops fire was a wildfire being monitored given limited resources initially because of the many other ongoing fires in the region to which fire-fighting resources were committed. Sorry to hear that you lost your house, but you followed your wits which kept you from getting stuck there by downed trees over the road. I spent two weeks in the area after the fire to inspect my property and ascertain where my wife and I would go from there. Watch the pride and ego firefighters: youll never outmatch Gods elements. I left early to get boys and filled Stantons old Subaru Outback up with gas. OnMonday, December 5, the Incident Management Team (IMT) on the Chimney Tops 2 Fire that burned from Great Smoky Mountains National Park (GRSM) into the Gatlinburg area reported that it has caused the deaths of 14people. When I crawled my way up Pinecrest Drive to Wiley Oakley through dense smoke, I saw a Gatlinburg pumper at the top of the hill. Many times this tactic takes commitment of over a week. The first thing you think is, Is this real?, said Tyler Neddo, a longtime employee of Caf 420. All rights reserved. But very little if any fire suppression activity occurred until Monday, November 28. So my husband called the Gatlinburg policy department with the same questions and got the same answers. No one wanted the castrophe that resulted. Remember GSMNP is not Yosemite or Yellowstone with extreme fire behavior and a history of problems. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Managers may need to keep resources in reserve for initial attack on new fires rather than a Hit it with all you have the Moment it breaks out. strategy. The steepness here is epic, the only way out of valleys this steep is straight down or up, your lucky not to hit a waterfall. They were in their driveway with a water hose. Once the winds came on day 5 or 6, there was nothing anyone could do. At least that is my understanding. I hope that the firefighters, leaders, and authorities in this area make sure to perform in depth After Action Reviews and make changes to avoid these issues in the future. Had they viewed the Chimney Tops 2 fire as though it was in the forested southwest Im sure they would have issued pre-evacuation notices up to 48 hours prior to the wind events of that Monday. The park should have been begging for help and putting out warnings all week end!!! But, that team is there to give future corrective actions, not to formulate lawsuits. Gatlinburg businesses look to rebuild after massive fire Kelly, Lloyd and anyone else that had home and/or businesses losses from the fire, tell everyone involved to write and/or call the governors office about what is going on. My family lives 15 mi. Another factor in the tragic outcome goes way beyond any mismanagement of the fire in its early period. I was afraid to go into Park with boys. Or in steep cliff terrain it just isnt going to happen, no one on the fire. Former Gatlinburg fire chief reflects as new wildfires burn - WTVF If we are so quick to remove those who are learning from their experience, successes and failures, do we not lessen the potential to create and benefit from more experts who will have more knowledge and wisdom to apply to future events? Our place was gone. By definition, prescribed burning is described as fire applied in a knowledgeable manner to forest and grassland fuels on a specific land area under selected weather conditions to accomplish predetermined, well-defined management objectives, pg 2, http://www.southernfireexchange.org/etc/ITPFISE.pdf. They must be invited in by the state, so the bureaucracy and border silos are at issue here too. Once again the County and the City is sitting around twiddling their thumbs and doing nothing just like they did when the fire started and they could have contained it. Other than the way the police were able to evacuate 4,000 people from Gatlinburg with little notice on Monday evening, everyone else involved did a very poor job. Id just like to ask folks to think about If prior experience of fires in the region may have betrayed fire managers this time. GRSM posted Fire Information signs in the area explaining their monitoring strategy due to vertical cliffs, narrow rock ridges and steep drainages. Here is one interview I gave to a Cincinnati station 2-3 days after the fire. The high winds were forecasted on the 25th, 2016. There will be time to consider legal and civil options later . I think wildland fire managers should be commended that this fire did not result in a tragic firefighter incident like Yarnell Hills. Then and only then will He let you effectively manage His creation that He has allowed you to be a part of for a short time. I can picture all As I learned in the first 12 hours what took place there, I realized that there was almost no preparation for the risk of a fire, on any One Person Dead After Downtown Gatlinburg Fire Sunday I have seen local hiking pictures that appear to show two separate smoke columns on Saturday 11/26. I do remember the bad fires in the 1990s in Florida and Colorado (I was in Glenwood Springs at a week-long seminar only a week after the Storm King Mountain aka South Canyon fire). What the kids did was extremely wrong and they should and will be punished for it but any Philadelphia lawyer work his retainer fee well get these kids off with no more than arson and reckless endangerment. They had access to the same fire flight info from Sundays flyover that other agencies had. Neither the NPS nor the city wanted CNN cameras covering a mass evacuation of a town jam packed with tourists on Thanksgiving weekend. He yelled at Bates to get out, and Bates did leave before coming back without the worker knowing. Instead simply took pictures on their phone, 3. Learning for the future is important if it includes changes in policy and procedure. I looked at the NWS Forecast Discussion and told my sister They should order pre-evacuation before the wind gets strong.. We really need to stop being so quick to cut of the heads of people doing their jobs and instead insist that they learn from and make changes for the better. > Jeannine In my 40 years in the fire service (Calif and Alaska), I have seen an unfortunate number of cases where agencies in generaland the NPS in particulardesignate fires as monitored event(s) (insert favorite agency terminology here) that hours, or days, later explode into huge incidents. He replied to me on Christmas Eve no less, that they were double checking all the facts to make sure all of their information was as accurate as possible and would keep digging.