He repeated what he has said in the past: He believes if the issue is to be addressed it should be done at the federal level. If so you may be onto something. He cannot or will not go back to school to become a plumber or a dentist or what ever, so he has to figure out how to get back into the Christian preaching / book writing / convention circuit. . I am thinking that is no doubt true, but Saul/Paul was also a religious activist who had double crossed his former sponsors in Jerusalem who had given him credentials to go seek out believers for persecution. Mark was one cog in a system that should never have been in place. Remember how everyone always tells Muslims to denounce terrorism and extremism? Why I did not run I do not know except I had a contract. He fails all or almost all the qualifications laid out for that role as outlined in the New Testament. Are you not voting? . i hope people will go back and read the whole thing if they havent yet. Why exiles dont speak out is a strange phenomenon. Please fill me in Numo. Robert Morris loves putting his flock under the law regarding Mosaic Law tithing and also under Deuteronomy so he can squeeze out extravagant gifts. 6100 N 19th St Ozark, MO 65721 Directions. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. I would argue the reverse. There is no uncertainty in that. I find it telling that it contains 41 mentions of "sin," "sinners" and "sinfulness.". No it wasnt, thanks for the insights. I know you are already familiar with it but for anyone else not familiar, it was written in the context of David and Saul. Did Driscoll forget about the part where Saul went away for years after his conversion. This can be anything from praying for people over the phone to working in the Online Campus studio. For more information about James River Church and to get connected, click the link below! They are showered with gifts and once you relinquish your highly prized contact data more gifts will follow to your home address. I think older people ignored the bad boy Driscoll because he seemed to be reaching the young people. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. Of course but that is so remote given the environment I am not holding my breath. Training ourselves to sense right from wrong based on the Word of God and empowered by the Holy Spirit will result in a clear conscience.. I gave Lindell a chance to respond to that tally. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby. Church buildings do not equal Jesus Christ. I knew I was being set up when I watched MDs embedded church video posted here at TWW. In case this was not a rhetorical question, Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. He needs to start small, out of the public eye, not in front of thousands. This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. He genuinely seemed to care. . I understand exactly how you feel if that helps. I have met Pastor Lindell once, months ago. believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they havent asked for forgiveness? Maybe the apostles did not want to be found by a major persecutor of the movement and Saul/Paul had no alternative but to put some distance between himself and his previous life until things calmed down a bit. Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? Likewise, in house churches sin happens because people will be people. The worst thing in the world right now for Chandler is that Mark is in making the Christian news cycle. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: Just typing this has made me a bit queasy. You might be onto something there Sopy. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. No coffee bar, etc. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) "We cannot endorse a candidate and we cannot endorse a party," he said. I think it underestimates those believers in the pews who are, themselves, filled with the Spirit and do exhibit the fruit of Galations 5. They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. Many others voiced their concerns about the images coming out of the church over the weekend, including Springfield-Greene County Health Director Clay Goddard, who said he was shocked by what he saw considering Missouri currently has more than 328,000 cases of the virus and no less than 4,358 deaths since the pandemic began. Let's see. i dont know what the answer is except to not get under the pastor leader concept ever. Mark is playing the victim. This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? If not, why not? With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. Some scholars put his time in Tarsus as much as 7 years and might be when he took up tentmaking since he was cut off from the rabbincial living. In October, he resigned as head pastor from Mars Hill, a Seattle megachurch with a Sunday attendance of 13,000. your comments are great. this is even a bigger bad root than the bad root of complimentarianism and authorityism. i havent seen any video or statement where he has actually apologized for anything except being mean when he should have been nicer in throwing people under the bus, shoulda offered them a pillow maybe so they didnt hit the ground so hard, but totally right in throwing them. What I saw was the 2 verses that I had typed on a 35 card and tacked to my bulletin board. I think MDs desire to be on a stage, at this point, is a sure sign he should not be there. The question is not, Can he be forgiven? but rather Should he be trusted in a position of power over peoples lives? I would guess that many of the people who have been directly harmed by him have forgiven him. some have suffered unjustly. I probably wont be won over to the side of communism. He told me he will vote against repeal. The ones leaving arent stupid. @ Lydia: . Questions about James River Church : r/springfieldMO - reddit In 2002, Agathos began as a ministry to rescue orphans in Africa during the peak of the out-of-control HIV/AIDS crisis. "Homosexual sin is not the only serious sin. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! Rejection by churches or others in christian authority has actually resulted in the Lord comforting and building me up (in spite of my flaws) instead of causing me to doubt my salvation, He has used these things to show me how much He loves me, personally. ++++++++++++++++++. Excellent comment! one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. Mark Driscoll has a lot of repenting to do and until he does that he should not be permitted to preach/speak at any church. Membership Covenants While a decreasing quota meant less pay. I think the guys a jerk and theres plenty of evidence out there for it. Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. Wow! I felt physically ill when I saw them. In the case of Chandler, the fudgy language in the apologies does not instill much confidence that the root has been exposed so that it can be dug out. He urged Christians living in the city limits of Springfield to vote to repeal the law and to leave church with a Yes-On-Repeal yard sign. We have been led by God to support another ministry. Almost all of them pointed to Gods leading. It certainly looked like they had been coached on what to say. As I listened, I couldn't help but wonder where things stand between Mark and those he threw under the bus. what they are. How to Resign from a Church Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? i have been ousted from 6 churches already and at first i took it as me being in error and not able to understand the bible or what the Lord had called me to be like but now i am able to see that i can trust the still small voice inside and the Holy Spirit to give me understanding of the scriptures without having to run it by a pastor somewhere. I know historical accounts can be skewed. It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. Thank you again. They didnt fail. Also, there is a difference, IMO, between forgiveness and trust restoration. Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. This guy had his audience eating out of the palms of his hands. Pastor Lindell invited disgraced misogynistic megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll to speak at James River Assembly while Driscoll was in the midst of a sexual harassment and bullying scandal in his home church. However, some of his employees and family were taken in by SBTS and seem to be doing ok. IMO, the church as a whole can help to regulate these things by exposing them and explaining how they do not reflect Christ at all. @Albuquerque Blue The Reformed Neo Cal world is going, Mark who?. Video comes off to me as MD justifying his return to the pulpit. When not enough graduates came forward they started begging people please any graduate or relative of a graduate, even if you just graduated from Kindergarten, please please come get your free gift because what Kindergartner doesnt need advice on how to buy a car? arrogant, a lover of money, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. and that it is ok to debate that point in public. any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. Your comment is insightful and probably (for the AoG churches) right on the money. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. The opposition is to Jesus. Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. Mark Driscoll has shown that hes capable of inflicting a lot of damage on many people. Im sure someone wittier than I can do something with his Training ourselves to sense right from wrong. Yes, I have been witnessing first hand over the years of the Calvinism in the AG. And Shifting the Blame. They want him to go away and they want to pretend he never existed for the sake of saving those church plants. He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. He set himself up as King of Acts 29 and operated with no accountability at Mars Hill. That does not mean you want harm to come to them. Ok, so i am seeing that a lot of people do not like this church. Thats why places like TWW are imperative. I recently ran into Scott Thomas and asked him about his promise to never abandon our orphans. He was no longer at Mars Hill Church and was himself suffering a level of abuse from the Mars Hill Church leadership. Tom Lane already draws a massive six figure salary yet it is never enough. Its all good until (insert question or issue). paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? Great comment Bridget. I am more interested in why the pew sitters fall for it and focusing there. Open Discussion Page. Covenants, ruling elders, etc. But he was not still throwing men and women (!) One of six. Hope youll give us another try and check out some other articles. one passenger died. . Nancy The way I see things may be different in that I see the individuals in the Kingdom being more important than mediating organizations in the church universal. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. hee hee. So we were allowed to leave in good standing. Hillsong Church Disinvites Mark Driscoll While James River Church Did nefarious conspirators plagiarize his books, hire Result Source and use his evil twin again to go with his wife to meet with his agents to put that $210,000 manipulation in place, all behind the real MDs back? So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. Church membership requires showing your W-2 and mandatory tithe Maybe six months from now, therell be another terrible story, and well know that the BSd us. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. helpful or even hopeful in terms of my eternal afterlife. We saw a good deal of quick forgiveness/cheap grace from defenders of TVC. These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. Lydia on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:48 I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. The hyper romanticized cinematic version of the uber cool Che trumps the reality of his bloody terrorist tactics and the horrors and oppression that his brand of communism inflicted on others. The Jews in Damascus want to kill him and he is snuck out of town by believers. Do you know his history and what he represents? Every week seems to get more strange and more openly cult like. One of the men had been to a conference in Seattle and was just wowed by his missional approach. How can a reasonable person look past that? Why am I concerned? So, if he became a member of a church, attended that for a while, accepting to do all kinds of unglamorous jobs that church members often do for their church, apprenticed with a pastor in a mainline church, where the position of pastor has a lot less power, tried to reconcile with the people he treated the worst well, maybe. his heart is revealed by the countenance of his face. (I guess angles smile a lot) Q. No. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. I am not the judge of the hearts of men, but God has given us clues to the genuine presence of the Spirit, and I did not see it. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. I hope I am wrong. Who has harmed you? @ sam: It seems like the big megas tend to adopt or embrace some of the sleazier or ungodly aspects of other churches verses the more positive programs like community services. This weekend GW is also doing Steven Furtick spontaneous baptism which are executed to the letter like Elevation. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts Under the circumstances, Mark Driscoll needs a time out, huh? Ive seen desensitizing have the desired effect and its not pretty. Joplin Campus - Joplin, MO - James River Church Online What I didnt know until this year is how much they are invading their universities as well. Pouring? Did Paul plagiarize? Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? Lindell has expressed his views on the topic before. where is God in all this? The church, according to the web site, was founded by three individuals, Mark Driscoll, Leif Moi and Mike Gunn. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. Do I hope they change? Im all for forgiveness but this complete whitewash of history when someone offers up an opportunistic Im sorry is not something I see in day to day life. Pokin has been at the paper three years and over the course of his career has covered just about everything from courts and cops to features and fitness. It was really bad, disastrous I might even say. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. James River Church(formerly, James River Assembly) is a Pentecostalmulti-sitemegachurchbased in Ozark, Missouri. Personally I am not really all that interested in what the celebrites do as in endorsing, spinning events or behavior, etc. But Christians are under the New Covenant and the NT calls Christians to expose false teachers, not facilitate their cover ups. She came to me in sorrow that she walked away from a relationship with Agathos after that Mars Hill warning.. Mind you I find Driscoll a tool in case I havent made that obvious. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. Did you miss a tithe payment? This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. To learn more, visit ja. Title He made a lucrative living and lived what I would call a lavish lifestyle (higher standard of living than every single person in my church, for example), and he did it all with Jesus. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. James River Church is a multi-site church that exists to impact the lives of people through relevant teaching,. Did he write (with $200k ResultSource juice job) a Best-Seller on His Humility (chuckle chuckle)? The youngest generation may be leaving the church in record numbers but at least they have a fighting chance of finding the real God later. I wish I knewits beyond comprehension. The sad part is that members have no idea how they are viewed unless they ask uncomfortable questions. But guess what else happened? yeah, that pastors comment is kinda too scary for me to think about lol. The worship leaders laugh about it. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. :o) I would view it like this: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are worth investigating with openess and transparancy. Its all good until (insert question or issue). . #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. Obviously, I disagree with Lindell on the upcoming vote. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. I think Dr Fundy left out the irony/sarcasm tags introduced with HTML 5.5. I find that when the Lord is using my mouth it is never vulgar or rude. James River Assembly, Ozark MO. I never thought of that but that certainly might be the case. Lindell doesnt have a real active blog, his third from last entry is titled: The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. Or alcoholics working in a bar. Bah, hit reply to soon. We are dedicated to making a difference in the lives of people through relevant teaching, heartfelt worship, and amazing kids & youth programs. @ Abi Miah: In 2010, Outreach magazine listed James River as one of the fastest-growing churches in America. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? One needed them because they were somehow spiritually qualified (?) we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . I still dont think he understands the harms he has done. starts with: Associating with Driscoll might make them feel younger and edgy. One of six. Do your part with the people in your life, give to your church, beyond that have a global heart for widows, orphans, the poor and those in need, I am going to ask you to support some widows and orphans in Africa, We have an orphanage, we have a villagemembers of Mars Hill have actually moved there to take care of widows and orphans.. . Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. We would love for you to join us for a service. I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. GW has a lot of bad stuff they are covering up. They noted that since the pandemic began, they have taken very stringent precautions at each service, including: take temperatures at the door, fog-sanitize their auditorium, sanitize the childrens areas and common areas multiple times daily and provide masks to everyone who attends. He faces re-election April 7. I had never heard someone talk like that. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. I was shocked and deeply saddened to see photos from the James River event over the weekend. from dictionary: Thanks for your help Numo! The program includes signing over any welfare benefits to the Ministry, with the program alleged to contain little actual psychological assistance, and mostly prayer and expelling demons. And equally astonishing is that other Christian leaders support his abusive style or at least overlook it. The text is not prescriptive. Thats how reasonable people see past the wicked. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. In their case, they just use Jesus as marketing tool to sell their own image.It is not like they have not had access to truth. . And he was not originally trusted or met with open arms by the Jesus believers of the day. If anything, Chandler has to present himself as the UnMark to a degree that few connect dots. And he cant really do that if he keep holding on to the more sexist, frat boy type of Christianity that Neo Calvinists support that he was espousing at Mars Hill. I would say he was a tyrannical charlatan that used people for his own purposes and claiming it was of Christ. The Lord had more to say about gall through His servant Jeremiah: Jeremiah 23:13-17 OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. 34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. Hi Nancy, I am a graduate from Sydney and I just want to say thank you so very much for making Mercy a possibility for girls like myself to be able to go to here in Australia, it has truly saved my life and given me a future. It was like my eyes were open. @ sam: The reason why I answered like that is because most of this stuff goes on because the pew sitters are not actively involved in the church operatons and are not demanding openess and transparancy of staff and leaders. No special event meet and greet for high dollar donors. A cult expert I spoke at length with said it may be harder to find the right one, but a smaller church is the way to go. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. There is no reason why he should be a pastor again. He was a mass murdering thug. 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.